I have noticed on more than one occasion that the healing I receive either as MA or SA is at times inconsistent. It is especially noticed when I am SA and the MA is down and I need healing.
Another issue is the amount of time it takes sometimes to get res'd and rebuffed. At a raid when a majority of the tanks have wiped, I shouldn't have to look for the MOTD to find out who to ask for buffs. When it is obvious that all the tanks went down, rebuffing should just be done without having to continually ask 5 different people.
There seems to be a lot of friction right now amongst the healers, based on some of the comments I've heard and seen.
In order for us to succeed as a guild, we ALL need to work together. We don't seem to have a lot of raiding healers in KotG, and we need to have the ones that do, work together efficiently so that we all win.
If others have noticed similar, please post, as I do think it's important enough to share and discuss.
Question: What does a Warrior who is SA do when the MA dies? I have looked here but do not see any thing about this here. If the Clerics know what you are about to do, that might help them to pick up heals faster on the SA. Cause if there is a CH chain it will have to be restarted and that means at least 12 to 15 seconds before the first CH hits the SA.
Fulic
The SA's responsibility after the MA goes down is to immediately obtain agro and become the MA. This isn't a choice, it's just what happens. That is why Meboom always announces in raid who the MA and SA are before we begin. The clerics sould be well aware of how this works.
That was very helpful to the Clerics.
Example: As soon as I get agro I use my disc Furious which is a 12 sec disc were I do not take damage and shout I have Agro please heal me. Then after that 12 seconds is up I use Final Stand disc which I take 45% less damage for 3 mins.
 In the example above the Clerics know what to expect when a tank change takes place. I am sure that all the clerics have not played a level 75 Warrior before.
A better understanding of each others class (Cleric/Warrior) might benifit the Guild as you stated above. Â
Fulic
Here is a couple of things to think about too. I have a /target key for the ma and sa and i also try to set my toggle last two targets key on the ma and sa before we start. The problem with that is that if i have to target someone else for a heal it messes up who's on the toggle key. I also have a generic assist key that i use with hott so i can assist the mob to see who has agro. On a tank change the SA should be on hott if everything works right but a lot of times several toons are flashing on hott before it finally settles on one person and by then when you assist to target them and begin to cast your heal its often too late.Â
I also have to apologize for taking some of the posts made by tanks way to personally. All of the clerics are doing there best to provide heals to everyone and its not always possible.Â
I did have an idea at work today that might be fun and also prove to be adventageous to both tanks and healers for a little practice. We could take the raid force into the arena where no xp will be lost if someone dies and set up a mock raid kind of. Pick one tank for the rest of the raid to attack while the clerics try to keep him alive. We could practice tank changes and have the paladins and others with stuns pick one cleric at random to stun and interupt so that we can practice jumping in and out of the heal rotation. That sounds silly I know but it could be fun and the practice definitely wouldnt hurt.
Sounds like a good idea to me. It would certainly help us find our weaknesses and how to overcome them.
And to top it off, it also sounds like fun, and a way to hone our raiding skills.  Count me in, lets see if Boomer can handle one of Qum's crits after Bamorfy malos' him.
There are sometimes situations when we go through 3 or 4 tanks in rapid succession. In those cases there may not necesarily be a third or fourth tank selection made, so it becomes more of a survival mode. The next tank will just step up and assume the role. That's where it gets tricky for the healers.
It's important that this tank, whoever he/she is make the "Assist Me" announcement in rsay to help the healers focus on who to heal. Sometimes these changes happen fast too.
All of our tanks are pretty much equal in HP and AC, so we just don't have that 18,000 HP 3200 AC unbuffed tank that some guilds have.
All of us KotG tanks are between 12,000 to 14,000 HP and 2,200 - 2,600 AC unbuffed. On a good day, with the right buffs we might see 17k-18k HP mark with full raid buffs. Cember, Meboom and me (in that order) probably have the highest amount of AA's of the warriors, but even with that, we still can fall pretty fast and sometimes do.
Just a little more information to add to the mix!
All this talk of healing, and i had found about a month ago i was pretty impressed with the healing.. haven't been on much lately so i can't say :P But since we are talking about tanking, what really gets my goat is when someone gets agro from the MA and doesn't seem to care and just keeps on attacking, Some tanks, some hybrids . If i'm not MA, i'm usually using a 2hander to not get aggro, If i do get agro, and YES i do it sometimes to. I stop attacking, back off and turn off attack for a few seconds and look around guilty. THen there are those of us that seem to keep attacking and go "weee look at me i stole agro, i'm uber i can tank this, wee look at me i'm protecting the clerics, If i wasn't a dumb... i'm sure they would all be dead by now." and then clerics change targets.  This is why war have ae taunt, and 3 agro discs. I could be using hand to hand for 5 minutes, MA dies and between two taunts and 3 discs. 99% of time i can get aggro. This and no one listens to assist call is what have me frustrated lately and making me not want to raid or play. And AA don't really make a difference after 700.. unless you wasted the first 500
I don't think it's so much intentionally stealing agro as it is perhaps an inability of the MA to effectively hold agro and keep it. AA's like Ferocity, Ambidexterity, Sinister Strikes, Fury, Relentless Assault, Flurry, Crazed Onslaught, Savage Assault, Slippery Attacks, Vets. Wrath, just to name a few, all substantially contribute to the overall agro. package. In addition, worn ferocity does stack with AA ferocity and contributes even more.
With the Scowl line of agro combined with Bazu and Vortex (which do stack) and weapons augmented with the proper agro. augments, there shouldn't be anyone stealing agro from the MA.
I addition, it's not always necessary to use 2HS to avoid agro. Kilor and I many times are in the same experience groups. I don't change out my weapons when he's tanking or does he when I am. when I'm not tanking, I don't taunt and I don't use discs. and we rarely if ever steel agro from one another. On occasion. we do test our agro skills by purposely trying to steal agro. It's not as easy as it may seem and does take quite a bit of taunting and discs. to do it.
So, I'd have to say that if someone is stealing agro., they are doing it intentionally or the MA just isn't generating as much hate as is necessary to keep him on the top of the mobs hate list.
230am
230am
I am very guilty of stealing agro from the MA. I don't want agro but it just happens. When I do I FD asap. Also during a fight of a Boss, I FD several times during the fight, I use a disc then after its time has run out I still FD just in case.
In many cases after the MA is killed I find myself on top of the list and when I FD it off I see a cleric get summoned or a Wizard, or even a Necro. I do feel guilty for FD'ing cause I know I got them killed.Â
Fulic
Usually, if I find myself on the top of the list after the MA dies, I let Fido (my warder) keep attacking cause he never seems to get to the top of the list (unless the mob runs outta position, then I hit pet hold). I will target myself and attempt to spam heal me til a warrior (hopefully) grabs it from me.
Another thing I sometimes do is turn off attack and try to spam slow the thing (only non-damaging agro spell I have) praying that I can keep argo off of a caster and a tank can take it from me before I die. (this is less effective when mob has been shammy/chanter slowed). Warriors seem to have no trouble grabbing agro from me when only using slow to get the mobs attention.
I also employ this method of spam slowing when adds break through the warrior line (in hopes that I can stay alive long enough til the mob is either taken over by a warrior or mezzed by chanter/bard.) Since Keepers is short on raiding Bards/Chanters, usually it hoping on warriors or other tank class.
When there are enough enchanters/bards on a raid it is a great way too keep mob off of healers/casters and even other DPS cause if it is mezzed (Pets cannot break mez---get the unable to attack mob message) and I never seen a riposte break a mez. What is disturbing is when other DPS decide to help me and the mob instantly starts beating on them or they end up breaking mez cause the only way they can get agro from me is by damaging the mob.
Cykor
Which way to the nearest Pizza Parlor?
I guess I must be missing something as I don't remember tanking in Lava. with Wahnil and I certainly don't remember stealing agro from anyone either.
If you are going to make accusations concerning someone intentionally stealing agro., please back it up with the accurate facts, or as I said before, take a look at your own tanking abilities with respect to your ability or inability to stay on the top of the mob's hate list. Not being able to hold agro when the mob is already down by over 25% can also be considered "not playing your classs right". Also, calling for assist prematurely (before adequate agro. is established) can also contribute to agro. shift.
I missed alot on this in the last few days.
Fulic asked what the sa does and biggest problem we have is we focus so much healing on the ma, that the sa is usually dead before the ma. Personally I am happier healing the sa than the ma on a raid as there is little help with healing him, unless I ask for it. I made a comment about not healing the ma on a raid a couple weeks ago and several people took it wrong, what they missed is that I could not heal both the ma and the sa and that I would be healing the sa as the healer in his group would be too busy to give him the attentiion he needed to do his job and help us.
The arena idea is fine for those who like pvp but I have little interest in that aspect of the game. I do know from doing samples that most of our warriors have stun augments on their weapons so that healing is interesting when they attack you.Â
I quit a guild when they had a "Mandatory PVP party in the Arena"  that is when i came to Keepers.
This would not be PvP, this would be a method of practcing our strats, and hope no one dies. We might even be able to improve timing of casts, come up with better strats, etc by doing this.
I felt silly even suggesting it in the first place but it did seem like a good idea. But if anyone is going to quit Keepers over it I guess I'd rather not. And also as far as I know it would be like a raid and raiding isnt mandatory. I just thought it would be a good way for all the classes to see what the others do and learn how to work together and make all of our class skills and abilities mesh rather than just hoping for the best.
I used to go to the arena every once in a while with a warrior friend of mine after I got my DA hammer and had a lot of fun cuz even if you accidently kill someone they dont lose any xp.
No reason to feel silly about making suggestions to improve how we raid. I still think it's a good idea. You don't lose any experience in the Arena if you should die, and we wouldn't be there to challenge each other in a PvP manner anyway.
And as Caeni has mentioned, because we don't have a parade of clerics banging on our guild door to join, we do on several occassions have less clerics healing than we have tanks. In a raid scenario one healer just can't keep two tanks up and fighting, a choice has to be made and sometimes very quickly, especially when there are a lot of changes in MA's due to deaths. This is just another reason why good communication between the healers and tanks is so important.
I die frequently at raids and I certainly don't blame anyone when it happens...it's part of the job. I can just hope that someone picks up the ball after me. The thing I like least about dying in a raid is the process of getting rebuffed and back to the fight, that is always what I see to be one of our weaknesses.
I said it is a great idea, i left because of "Mandatory PVP fighting", not Practice to get better. there is a big difference.
IÂ would be one of the first ones there for that event. Â
Bamorfy
Barbarian Shaman of the 75th season Quymeni
High Elf Wizard of the 75th season
This post began with concerns about life expectency of a warrior on raids.Â
Have the concerns that brought this about been addressed? Is there more that needs to be discussed? I know everyone heals a bit different on a raid and that this can be an asset or weakness. Since I am frequently grouped with the ma or sa I usually heal them and members of my group. If I am not grouped with the ma or sa then I will make sure the healers are not getting agro or hit by an ae and heal them so that they can continue to heal the ma or sa. if the target is such it helps I might use a fast heal at 50 health to back up the ma's healer but I always try to not step on heals and waste mana.
I find using the mob and assisting it to get a target risky and frequently difficult to get a target before someone dies. As I said each of us has learned to do things in a different manner and the way we do things works for us. As long as the raid force is healed and we defeat the targets we want to defeat it does not matter if we all play with our own personality.
Practicing or real, I would not want to go up against any of my friends. If an arena event is planned I will spend the time elsewhere as this aspect of the game does not appeal to me.
We should always set up a Healers Chat Channel on raids so the healers can decide among themselves who does what and set up the CH rotation. As a druid, I'm usually assigned to heal my own group and spot heal as needed or possible, but I usually make it a point to keep an eye on our clerics and chanters if I possibly can. It's also important to watch the main raid channel in case the raid leader calls for all healers to target a particular tank.
There is already a chat channel that as a healer you should be joining. Kotgheal, i spam for healers to join it in the raid channel several times during the raid.
Sorry Iveen. We were just talking basics here. I didn't mean to insult you.
who? what? insulted? not me, was just saying channel name. kotgraid,kotgheal,kotglewtz and for clerics kotgchrot. Not insulted not offended. any input by members of the heal team is always welcome.
yes my tanking abilities blow ! Okay that wasn't the original message, but i thought about it and no reason to open a dead subject. I let my feelings be known, agree with me or disagree with me. I know i already have enough people who don't like me! And yeah my tanking is far from perfect, see time last night where meboom came in to tank on TT and we won. Several people told me it was the clerics had the CH set up on 3rd try, but i really felt like i was doing something wrong. And Admit as much. Sometimes a change works best too. See rikki attempt other week. I"m a little rusty on that. Is a hard fight for tank though cuz we got to do all the work. Still don't know how he got up on cliff... But i'm confident another try and i'll do much better. IT's a learning experience for all of us, Cuz most of us haven't raided this crap. That includes tanks, healers, dps. I don't know anything about healing, besides shouting at someone to heal me! So i'm sure the healers will do a better job then if i took over for them 
 It was 2:30 in the morning and i had a few drinks so i was a bit blunt. All i'm trying to say is that none of us tanks are perfect either. Â
 And yeah i'm probably back to playing now after mostly 2-3weeks off.
And sorry my grammar is at about a grade 3 level!
the clerics had a chrot set up for all the attempts in time but we were in the wrong place and getting the ae and dieing we know where to set up now and if everyone lets the ma keep him turned as planned everything will go much smoother. it was very frustrating to have that many clerics on and wipe three times when we have done it with a lot fewer clerics.
